crankenfurter ([info]crankenfurter) wrote,
@ 2008-04-20 23:31:00
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Entry tags:zen

Zennist not Buddhist
I've been perusing christian zennist sites trying to comprehend how the (seemingly to me) incompatible
teachings operate compatibly -- I had erred assuming christians studied and accepted buddhist dharma ... this was the rub as I saw it being that atman and anatman would come into play causing a contradiction of terms.
This site opened it up for me that christian zennists are not practicing/
accepting buddhist teaching but the practice of zazen and mindfulness only.
All the zen I've been exposed to is/was of the buddhist zen variety -- I thought that was the way of it --


I can be so dense sometimes.


http://www.willigis-jaeger.de/eng/zen.html



2. Zen is not a religion. Thus, there is no Christian Zen and no Buddhist Zen. And so, there are also no Buddhist Zen masters, but rather only Zen masters who are Buddhists, and likewise also Zen masters who are Christians or even ones who even do not belong to any confession. Unfortunately, in the East as well as in the West, there are Zen teachers who are still deeply implanted in a confession. The fundamental difference between the religions does not run vertically between the single denominations, but rather horizontally between the esoteric and exoteric levels of these religions.

-- snip --

Zen is indeed closely tied with the Buddhist religion, but it transcends it and every other religion. Zen and every esoteric path, be it Yoga, Vipassana, Contemplation, etc. lead us out of and above the confession of a religion; that means that they also lead us out of a superficial religious understanding as it is taught in religious textbooks.

3. And a third thing appears important to me: Zen should lose its monastical character when it is applied to the Western world. No one needs to shave their hair off or to don a Buddhistic monk’s raiment in order to practice Zazen. We must not adopt all the rituals which have developed in the course of time within the Zen monasteries. The inclination towards external forms is a beginner’s illness common to all converts. Zen will change its outer structure in the West just as it changed itself after contact with Taoistic China. Its essential nature cannot be adulterated, also not by Christians and Buddhists. The Dharma does not need a defender.

"I would like to quote an important contemporary Zen master: "We must approach Zen independently from the Zen-school of Buddhism. Zen does not belong either inclusively nor exclusively to the Buddhistic school of Zen. I consider Zen a universal truth which brings true knowledge and peace into the life of the people in the world. Each religion and culture should take the benefits out of the spiritual values which Zen is able to offer." (Shibayama, p 70) "

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righto
[info]michimusic
2008-04-21 02:53 pm UTC (link)
I was reading this guy yestrday
http://www.zenarizona.com/docs/founder.htm
it was a book from the '70's when he led the Lama center in New Mexico.
Anyway he said "zen is not a religion" and I meant to mention it to you - but it looks like you'v done your own research.
I loved his writing, by the way. he had such gems as "don't put eye lotion in your ass hole" and "zen teachers will not scratch your back. We expect you to do it for yourselves." - this is one of the main differences he points out between some religious leaders and zen teachers.

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Re: righto
[info]crankenfurter
2008-04-21 07:24 pm UTC (link)
He's still doing sesshins over there -- there's one with him at the end of the month I wish I could attend.
I sit at Haku un Ji on sundays and sit zazenkai there too.
Even there, there is a buddha statue/altar in the zendo.

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Zen Lite
(Anonymous)
2008-04-21 03:30 pm UTC (link)
Mr. Jaeger exemplifies classic Buji Zen. It's sad, but it's not really new.

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Re: Zen Lite
[info]crankenfurter
2008-04-21 07:18 pm UTC (link)
Why sad?

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this is very interesting
[info]buzfree
2008-04-22 12:46 am UTC (link)
are we ever going to get together for a cup of tea to talk about all this interesting stuff you share on your blog?

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Re: this is very interesting
[info]crankenfurter
2008-04-22 04:16 pm UTC (link)
yes -- sometime, somewhere

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[info]the_urban_monk
2008-04-30 08:39 pm UTC (link)
I've never heard of this person, but he's clueless about Zen.

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[info]crankenfurter
2008-04-30 10:12 pm UTC (link)
I'm just trying to figure out how these dogma and karma become companionable

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